11 Responses

  1. deti

    I don’t have definitive answers either to the question of “what do we do when the mainstream continues asking the questions?

    I have a couple of thoughts.

    One is to continue putting feminists’ and tradcons’ statements right back up at them, holding them up as a mirror to show them how their own claims have come full circle. One example is the article you linked: Tracy Clark Flory’s practicing AFBB in her premarital sexual flings only to marry a “nice” man as she reaches 30. Will they see it that way? Who knows. Another example is Sheryl Sandberg’s “Lean In” passage where the AFBB strategy is set out in pure black and white, laying bare the strategy we all know they’re following. Yet another are the articles from Thought Catalog, where late 20s women are saying “OK nice guys, I’m ready to date you now”. We need to be at the ready with the articles, to say their own words back to them, to show them the failure of the system. Kate Bolick. The cat lady from England. The alpha widow who was the subject of an expose in the Daily Mail who admits to fantasizing about her past lovers while married to another man and who had to learn how to avoid her fantasies.

    Another thing we will have to do is to be ready to state and show with examples, how feminism has infected literally everything, and has pushed out and marginalized male interests and desires.

    Another thing to ask women is : Are you happier now? Are you better off now? Are you happier being unable to find men willing to marry you? Are you better off having to work and then being willing to end up alone and childless? Is this making you happy? If so, why do we constantly hear about “where are all the good men”?

  2. Anonymous Reader

    I’m not sure it is up to “us”, for any particular definition of the word. To the larger society the androsphere is a combination of 90’s drum-circles, angry divorced men ranting in some cheap bar, sleazy pickup artists in a different cheap bar, circus sideshow and mysterious primitive tribe deep in some jungle. At least that seems to be the case; the few attempts so far to discuss rather than disqualify the androsphere have been of the “look at these loser freaks! or “gorillas in the mist” approach.

    The strength of the truth about women (“the glasses” “red pill”) and men lies in both explanatory and predictive power. We can explain all sorts of things in simple, rather easy to understand terms that no other model can do. Hypergamy alone has not just explanatory but predictive power – as more women “lean in”, fewer of them will form lasting marriages. It’s simply obvious on the face of it, but can be explained in terms of SMV, MMV, attractors and hypergamy. Nothing, but nothing, in the main stream comes close; in fact the main stream is still bound up in the feminist fallacy of interchangeable men and women.

    Perhaps the real breakthrough has started in the “who needs feminism?” photo sites. If enough young women fully internalize the fact that they are not “men who can have babies and grow boobies”, but actually different from men in both physical and psychological ways, then that prop can be kicked away.

    For now, I predict more of the same. More small low-traffic blogs that spread ideas, more traffic to clearninghouse blogs like JFG, Dalrock, etc. More truth in comments on mainstream sites, generating more expeditions by would-be antropologists to the freakshow jungle.

    The mainstream media has a problem with comments, in that on the one hand they have become part of the landscape of discourse and therefore people expect to be able to comment on news stories at the Telegraph or the Daily Mail or the Wall Street Journal. On the other hand, badthought keeps creeping in more and more, and that means either an expenditure on heavy-handed moderation, or further exposure to badthought. Either way alienates some of the more reliable and predictable readers, to the detriment of circulation / pageviews.

    I feel the pain of the M$M, really I do…

  3. Trugingstar

    “But it seems that another part of the puzzle is discerning the proper time for a more straightforward engagement of the core issues in a way that distills them, yet is focused on key areas where engagement is needed.”

    I first found the manosphere right after the Sunshine Mary Incident. It stuck in place long enough for me to get my head on straight. Now, it’s really ending. That’s what I think. There’s nothing unifying it, other than the understanding that male dominance and female submission are needed to foster attraction.

    You have some people leaving, because they now get the point. You have some people staying, but writing about other things. Male dom theory is a means, not an end. It’s a means to several types of religious marriages, and means to pagan alpha-ness/ eventual retired alpha -ness. Ideology is the divider, as with everything else in life.

    Eventually, it won’t be in one centralized location. It will be enmeshed in theologies again, and also used by worldly men to sin. Feminism will implode on a cultural level first, and then on a political level. This is because Feminism opposes the natural order of things. It won’t take that much cultural infrastructure to end it.

  4. Trugingstar
  5. Donal Graeme

    Somehow I missed this post when it first came out. My response is untimely, so I will keep it short.

    Trugingstar is on the right track. The manosphere, at least as it existed at first, was a beginning. It was a collection of men who came together for a variety of reasons, but at the root of these reasons is found the disconnect between the nature of men and women and how society approaches the matter.

    Now that a number of ideas have percolated for a while, every camp is going to use them towards it own ends.

    A way to look at it is that this is a process of reintegration of what used to be understood about women (although I do think we’ve made some “progress” in understanding certain components of female nature) and men. We were together just to relearn what was lost, and now that this is accomplished, we are reverting back to our preexisting divisions.
    What is to be done? Depends on which camp is involved.

    PUAs will simply want to refine their techniques.
    MRAs will want to use what has been learned to try and make the law fair.
    MGTOW will use what they’ve learned to disengage, and possibly fight attempts to force them to engage
    Christians might use it to try and reform society, but I think it more likely it will be used to reform the church instead, and purge feminism from its ranks.

    If someone of great influence (and wealth) was to get involved, he might be able to make it move toward specific goals. But I don’t see that happening, so I expect further dispersion of the ‘sphere.

  6. Practicallyperfect

    An astute post Nova.

    I somewhat disagree with Donal and Trugingstar. What was, was, only the beginning, but the accomplishments you stated in your post will be at risk disappearing if we continue to function as a loose confederation of sites/individuals with no real purpose. If the Manopshere and its inhabitants ceases to exists the truth we espouse will have been proven false and without legitimacy in our claims. Are the truths revealed and discussed in the sphere important enough to unite a community beyond philosophical and political back patting comments, financial gain or pseudo celebrity? Are the truths we profess important enough to find a way to make them relevant and viable life option to the current generations? Do we believe enough in the message to let go of the fear come out of hiding and build a community of living examples in real life?

    People leave the sphere for one of the same reasons people have left the church (other than feminism.) There is no connection beyond the comments, and eventually everyone has to go back into the real world and it is lonely out there.

    The next metamorphosis for the Manosphere is a move to real life with real connections.
    Or to go with your archipelago analogy; time to build some bridges.

    1. Donal Graeme

      @ Practically,

      It isn’t so much that the manosphere is going to disappear. Rather, that it will sub-divide into more cohesive camps. The loose confederation which was the original ‘sphere was only a temporary thing, it was united not by ideology but by some common experiences and concerns. The only way for it to act as a united force would be educational, in the sense of “getting the message out.” Except even there the message itself would be very limited, mostly along the lines of “society is full of lies.”

      You are right that the “next step” is moving from the online world to the real one. Only that will be done accordingly to each camp’s methods, not some uniting principle, because one doesn’t exist.

      1. Practicallyperfect

        Excellent points Donal. I agree that each camp of the sphere will have to find its methods to find ways to encourage, educate, hold accountable and affirm to their inhabitants. From my own experience I know how important it is to keep reading, to be continually learning and exposed to new perspectives least of all to stay on point and not get led astray, but it is difficult when there are no connections in RL.

  7. Höllenhund

    We can be sure about one thing: there is a proliferation of websites run for the specific purpose of attacking the Manosphere. In al likelihood, there will be even more of them. It’s an obvious sign that the Cathedral is eager to have ideological conflict. It sees its internal enemy as a unified force, some sort of hydra: misogynists, racists, sexists, rightist reactionaries and anti-Semites, all conspiring to hinder glorious social progress. The SJW crowd apparently believes they have the advantage, so it’s time to fight all enemies at once. One way this is likely to manifest is more legislation designed to suppress “cyberbullying”, “online harassment” and “hate speech”. It’s also no coincidence that we’re seeing an alignment among self-proclaimed feminists, de fact feminists not calling themselves feminists, tradcons and mainstream socons, based on their shared mentality of gynocentrism. This explains the socon support for the recent YMY law.

    It’ll be interesting to watch the 2016 election campaign. It seems certain that economic stagnation will continue, which means there will be a more rigorous search for scapegoats. The Man Up Brigade is sure to find its way into the campaign and recruit all serious candidates as supporters. We’ll see more and more discourse about so-called Peter Pans.

    All in all, the current trends are self-reinforcing. This is sure to play into the hands of the Manosphere.

  8. The Future of the Manosphere | trugingstar

    […] Here’s where Novaseeker asked what was going to become of the Manosphere, and Graeme and I pre… 🙁 […]

  9. Factory

    Hey Novaseeker, I’m looking for your email and can’t find it. I have no idea how to get hold of you so can you pop me a line at dan20853 -at- that g(oogle) mail place? It’s funny how related this is….I am developing an app to propagate these very ideas to the mainstream, and I want your participation. Among other commenters I see here, like Deti, for example.

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